Join us for an inspiring and thought-provoking interview with Dr. Harlene Anderson, a trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and co-founder of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach. In this deep dive, we explore her revolutionary ideas—from challenging traditional therapy hierarchies to redefining power, knowledge, and the role of language in healing.

We’ll unpack:
- The origins of her work—What drew her to the Mental Research Institute (MRI) and constructivist ideas? Who were her early influences?
- The birth of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach—How did she and Harry Goolishian shift therapy from "expert diagnosis" to conversational meaning-making?
- The myth of "not-knowing*—How has this controversial (and often misunderstood) concept evolved? Is it a political stance, a therapeutic tool, or both?
- Power, reflexivity, and ethics—Can therapists truly "not know"? How do we balance lived experience with professional knowledge without reinforcing oppressive dynamics?
- Real-world applications**—How do these ideas translate beyond therapy into education, organisations, and social justice?

Plus, we include listener questions which tackle the tough critiques: Is "not-knowing" still misused today? Does it risk ignoring systemic power? And how do therapists ethically choose which discourses to engage?

This is a conversation about unlearning, curiosity, and the transformative power of dialogue—one that challenges therapists and listeners alike to rethink how we engage with each other’s stories.

Join us in this insightful episode as we sit down with Dr. John Launer, a retired GP, family therapist, and pioneer in integrating systemic and narrative approaches into healthcare. Dr. Launer shares his journey from general practice to becoming a leading figure in training healthcare professionals to use therapeutic conversations in their everyday work.

Discover the transformative power of Conversations Inviting Change (CIC), a method Dr. Launer co-developed to help clinicians balance the normative demands of medicine with the reflective, curiosity-driven practices of systemic and narrative therapy. Learn about the Seven Cs framework—Conversation, Curiosity, Context, Complexity, Challenge, Caution, and Care—and how it can revolutionize patient interactions, supervision, and teamwork in healthcare settings.

Dr. Launer also reflects on the challenges facing the NHS, the importance of storytelling in medicine, and his hopes for the future of healthcare education. Whether you're a healthcare professional, therapist, or simply curious about innovative approaches to communication, this episode offers valuable insights into creating meaningful, patient-centered care.

Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that bridges the gap between medicine and therapy, and explores how curiosity and reflection can transform healthcare practices.

Join us for an inspiring and personal conversation with John Burnham, a true trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and a visionary in the field of family therapy. With a career spanning over five decades, John has dedicated his life to transforming the way we understand and approach mental health, particularly in the context of eating disorders and family dynamics.

In this insightful podcast episode, John Burnham, reflects on his decades-long career, sharing personal and professional experiences that have shaped his approach to systemic psychotherapy. He discusses the importance of relationships, both in therapy and in life, emphasizing how trust, risk-taking, and role-playing are essential tools for growth and connection.

John recounts memorable moments from his practice, including how live supervision and reflective teams have influenced his work, and highlights the value of humility, curiosity, and adaptability in therapeutic practice. He also touches on the evolution of family therapy, the importance of staying relevant in the field, and his hopes for its future. With warmth and wisdom, John offers a heartfelt exploration of what it means to be a therapist, a colleague, and a lifelong learner in the ever-changing landscape of psychotherapy.

Summary of episode:

1. Role of Role Play in Learning:
   • Importance of role play in helping students learn by making mistakes, recovering, and moving forward.
   • Example of a supervisor demonstrating techniques with families in front of students, which students found helpful.
2. Overcoming Fear of Failure:
   • Students often hold back due to fear of making mistakes or not knowing how to start.
   • Encouragement to take action, even if clumsy, rather than waiting to be "clever" or perfect.
   • Families can be forgiving and collaborative in the process.
3. Engaging Families in Therapy:
   • Therapists need to show willingness to engage with families before expecting families to engage in therapy.
   • Importance of taking initiative and co-creating solutions with families.
   • Example of a therapist reading through a client's extensive notes and deciding to engage based on the person, not just the notes.
4. Building Trust with Marginalized Families:
   • Some families, such as same-sex couples, may fear judgment or criticism from therapists.
   • Therapists need to reach out and create a safe space for these families to engage.
   • Example of a therapist meeting a same-sex couple at the top of the stairs to reassure them and invite them into therapy.
5. Ethics of Offering Therapy:
   • Debate on whether to offer therapy without meeting the client first.
   • Perspective that it is unethical to reject clients without meeting them and understanding their unique situation.
6. Personal Reflections on Career and Privilege:
   • Gratitude for being able to work in a field that is fulfilling and impactful.
   • Reflection on the privilege of loving one's job and making a contribution to others' lives.
   • Connection to personal family history, such as a parent who trained as a family therapist but never practiced.
7. Decolonization in Family Therapy:
   • Family therapy as a decolonizing process against the medical model and individualization.
   • Discussion of presentism and judging past actions by current standards.
   • Reflection on the lack of exposure to racial issues in a monocultural environment and how that shaped early understanding.
8. Intergenerational Impact of Training:
   • Therapists training the children of those they previously trained, highlighting the long-term impact of their work.