Is your product losing traction or failing to grow? You might be experiencing product-market drift—the silent killer of product success. In this episode, we are joined by David Nash, who helps us spot the warning signs and shows you how to realign with customer needs, market trends, and evolving technologies. Learn how to stay ahead of the drift with actionable strategies that ensure your product remains relevant and continues to deliver value. Don’t let your hard work go to waste—listen in and discover how to keep your product healthy, adaptable, and ready for growth.

Show Links

Dave Washa- Product Market Drift

https://www.mindtheproduct.com/fighting-product-market-drift-by-dave-wascha/

Find David Nash on Linkedin

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dnashpdx/

Show Notes for Episode 13: Battling Product-Market Drift

[1:00] Welcome, David Nash!
David joins us to talk about product-market drift and how product managers can stay ahead of it.

[1:30] The Secret to Hiring Great Product Leaders
David shares his knack for building stellar product teams.

[2:06] What Is Product-Market Drift?
We dive into what this sneaky challenge is and why it matters.

[3:50] The 6 Causes of Product-Market Drift
David breaks down the top reasons products lose their way.

[5:30] David’s Big Contributions
How David’s work helps product managers keep their products relevant.

[9:00] When Startups Lose Focus
Ryan explains how a lack of focus leads to failed products.

[10:49] Customers Want More (and They’re Not Waiting)
65% of people expect better services now than just a few years ago.

[12:30] Joe’s Vegas Love Story
What online travel agencies after 9/11 taught us about market evolution.

[15:07] David’s Vegas Adventure
A fun story about a father-daughter trip and customer expectations.

[18:00] Southwest Airlines and Risks of Change
Joe questions Southwest’s decision to tweak its winning formula.

[21:06] Risk: The Biggest Organizational Mistake
David explains why avoiding risk can be deadly for products.

[24:00] AI Projects and Taking Risks
David shares lessons from his team’s first AI project.

[27:10] Todd’s Stakeholder Management Lesson
An unforgettable story about managing tricky stakeholders.

[29:55] Driving Risk Through Red Tape
David introduces his “risk register” to help product managers tackle organizational barriers.

[31:45] Job Description Drift
When roles shift, how do you stay on track?

[32:30] Todd’s Big Epiphany
What makes product managers such a unique and fascinating group?

[35:00] Key Takeaways
Learn how to spot and fix product-market drift before it’s too late.

Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.

Are you unsure how your Product Manager responsibilities fit into your team’s dynamics? Struggling to define your Product Manager job or wondering what it takes to thrive in your role? In this episode, we label different product team culture types, explore their anti-patterns, and discuss the types of people who perform best in each environment. Along the way, we break down the Product Manager definition within these settings and highlight essential skills for Product Managers to succeed. Think of this episode as part career guide, part group therapy—it’s packed with insights to help you navigate team dynamics and unlock your full potential.

1:21 - Todd has been thinking a lot about cultures—specifically product team cultures and how they impact Product Manager responsibilities.

2:00 - The Product Culture Name It Game and how to thrive in each culture as part of your Product Manager job.

3:26 - We discuss the different elements of product team cultures and their impact on defining essential skills for Product Managers.

5:52 - “If you build it, they will come”—a classic anti-pattern in product management.

8:29 - A discussion around sales enablement and its role in Product Manager responsibilities.

11:11 - A team that ONLY focuses on metrics/KPIs—aka the “tightwad” product culture, and what this means for the Product Manager job.

14:12 - Good aspects of a data-driven product culture and how it aligns with the Product Manager definition.

16:57 - Todd explains why he would thrive in a “data-thirsty” culture.

19:01 - Tips for how a PM can succeed in a data-driven culture by leveraging essential skills for Product Managers.

21:10 - Is success making all stakeholders happy? Or is it ensuring all departments agree on the right thing to do?

22:39 - The Consensus-Driven Culture—Joe gets the gold star for team alignment!

23:30 - A fun “Truman Show” reference to illustrate consensus-driven decision-making.

25:20 - Ryan shares when a consensus-driven culture isn’t ideal for a Product Manager job.

26:00 - Lightning Round: We share our favorite product culture names!

29:00 - Cool Kids Culture? Todd shares childhood trauma about not being “cool.”

30:52 - The Learners Culture: Why constant learning is an essential skill for Product Managers.

32:40 - Ryan and Todd joke about Joe’s real age—was he born in 1935?

34:04 - The Mission-Driven Culture: Aligning product strategy with purpose.

36:22 - The Fire-Fighter Culture: When every day is crisis management.

38:45 - Joe shares the Customer-Centric Culture: What it means for Product Manager responsibilities.

39:20 - Advantages and disadvantages of customer-centric cultures and their impact on defining essential skills for Product Managers.

41:00 - We share which product cultures each of us would thrive in based on our strengths as PMs.

42:00 - Key Takeaways: Plus, a fun “Jumanji” reference to wrap things up.

Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.

1:42 - Meet Jeff and his big question for product managers: "How can we ensure we have the right understanding from our leaders?"

4:30 - Ryan emphasizes the importance of focusing on outcomes over outputs to clarify product manager responsibilities.

7:35 - Todd jokes about where their "outputs over outcomes" tattoo should go.

9:20 - Ryan urges product managers to seek clarity when they don’t understand the "why" behind a request.

10:30 - Todd shares a story from his LA Times days on asking for clarification from his boss.

15:12 - The group discusses how product managers can overcomplicate unclear requests.

16:00 - Joe suggests playing the "New Guy" card when in doubt.

19:00 - The team highlights that asking questions is a strength for a product manager, not a weakness.

23:35 - Ryan poses the question: Is there ever a time when product managers shouldn't ask for clarification?

24:28 - Joe shares a story about when he had to "bite his tongue" as a product manager.

26:30 - Todd adds that timing is everything; knowing when to ask is part of the product manager job.

30:00 - Joe discusses the role evolution from order-taker to partner for a product manager.

33:26 - Todd revisits Jeff’s story to highlight the importance of avoiding wasted time and resources on misaligned products.

34:30 - Joe shares a product manager tip: develop internal personas to better manage stakeholders and understand their goals.

35:20 - A lightning round on common requests that product managers initially misunderstood.

36:40 - The infamous "JIRA-slinging ticket monkey" term makes an appearance. Shoutout to Dean Peters!

38:46 - Key takeaways (and some friendly teasing of Joe for his wording choices).

Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.

Episode Description

1:00- Meet Nils Davis

2:47- Nils reminds us that Product Managers are really “Unicorns” in the workforce

7:00- Nils shares his favorite phrase as a Product Manager “Your obvious is your art”

8:47- Nils shares the pros/cons of understanding your “spike”

10:03- We discuss how it's difficult to share our superpower with the people that surround us

12:08- Nils shares the different ways we can discover our PM spike/superpower

15:45- Todd shares the struggle with asking for feedback to identify your PM spike/superpower

17:52- Nils shares one of his PM spikes

20:15- Todd shares the PM spike he wishes he had

22:12- Todd compares Joe’s PM spike to that of a Golden Retriever

25:20- A new word is introduced to the Product Porch- “Pragmatic Empathy”

28:15- Todd asks the question of whether or not the PM role has a unique set of capabilities

33:19- We review the stable of “Product” Unicorns-

36:19- Todd reminds us why he’s against Annual Performance Reviews and not a coder 🙂

39:10- We wrap up with our advice for the PM community struggling to find their “spike” (Nils-leverage Clifton Strengths Finder assessment)- people are the stars of their own movies

40:18- Todd- Don’t feel guilty for your spike. Find that thing that you love and lean into it

41:30- Joe- Be genuine and true to yourself (not as profound as Todd/Nils)

42:00- Nils ends with a very profound thought- “Product Managers are amazing creatures, yet you would never know it from reading their resume”

Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.

2:15 What are the Product Management trends everyone is talking about

4:30- Todd asks the question: Are we focusing on the problem at the expense of the solution?

7:00- Joe explains why he believes we have over-indexed on some of the common PM themes

10:05- We are getting paid to deliver- reality check for all PMs

11:45- Ryan tells how this is a struggle for Type A personalities

13:16- Todd walks us through his approach to move to execution (from high-level concepts to delivery)

14:21- Joe’s shares an unpopular opinion about SAFe and its value for Product Leaders

16:08- Todd shares how he uses Ryan and Joe for some very specific product needs- team bonding moment

18:45 Todd admits that SAFe quarterly planning is awesome. Joe and Todd have a moment

22:54- What is the Product Managers Role in Solutioning? Ryan shared his POV

27:12- Todd shares a current situation on what to do with competing perspectives on proposed solutions-

29:09- You need to have confidence and conviction- Ryan Cantwell- this is what a PM needs to do

30:30- Sometimes you just make calculated risks as Product Managers- we discuss as a team

35:03- Todd kicks off a Job title game- problem or solution. Grab your popcorn!

39:01- Todd shares why he loves “defining the problem”

41:04- Key Takeaways-

Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.

1:22 The fellas discuss their favorite Ken phrase

1:44- Ken tells us what it means to be a product management truth teller

5:16- What can we do as product managers to become more valuable?

8:35- One of the first steps- What goal are you trying to achieve and how can I help you get there?

10:30- Ken tells us why you should spend 20 min a week interviewing a customer

12:55: Todd outlines why experimentation is critical for a product manager

16:45- The team discuss the product management anti-patterns we should watch out for

23:00- How to make yourself an indispensable product person?

26:30- Ken talks about how you can build a quarterly plan to build a strong product management team

28:00- Todd shares his PM secret sauce- Product Framing

29:00- Ryan reminds us to ask the question “So What”

30:56- We share Ken’s favorite PM phrase “Magic Beans”

34:15- What got us here (why are there so many PMs that are unemployed)?

37:40- Is there another domain where the role is defined by someone who doesn’t understand the value of product management?

40:00 Key Takeaways/Wrap-up

Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.