In this deep and lively conversation, Patrick and Jonah continue their journey through Paul’s Letter to the Ephesians, entering chapter 6 — the passage addressing children, parents, and the challenge of obedience. Together they explore the profound tension and mystery in Paul’s words about submission, obedience, and how they can easily be misused or distorted into oppressive tools. At the same time, they consider how obedience can be transformed and transfigured through Christ into a liberating path of love, discernment, and freedom.

Drawing on personal experiences as fathers and priests, Patrick and Jonah reflect on moments of healthy authority, rightful correction, and also times when children (and all of us) must discern when voices are not “in the Lord.” The discussion expands into themes of generational inheritance, the role of parents in blessing the earth, and the deeper spiritual call to hear and follow the true voice of God — which may come through others but ultimately lives in the listening heart.

Themes Discussed

• Introduction to Ephesians 6: The closing exhortations before the “armor of God” passage.
• The continuity of the theme of submission and ordering oneself rightly — in families, communities, and before Christ.
• The radical equality in Paul’s new vision: children, wives, and bondservants are all addressed directly as fellow members of Christ’s body.
• The nuanced meaning of obedience “in the Lord” — not blind rule-following, but discerning and heeding true words of life.
• Parenting experiences: moments of both failure and grace in bringing up children in the “instruction of the Lord.”
• The danger of obedience distorted into tyranny and the church’s historical complicity in oppression.
• The role of listening (shema) in Jewish and Christian traditions — as deeply connected to the will and the path of freedom.
• Children (and all of us) learning to test the spirits and to recognize what is truly good and true.
• Reflections on generational burdens and blessings — breaking patterns to offer freedom to the next generation.
• The Prodigal Son as a lens for parenting adult children and trusting the Lord of destiny.

Key Scripture

• Ephesians 6:1-4 — Children, obey your parents in the Lord…
• John 8:12 — I am the light of the world…
• The Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4) — Hear, O Israel…
• Luke 15: The Prodigal Son — referenced as a parable of trust and freedom.

Closing Thoughts

Patrick and Jonah close with wonder at the figure of Christ Jesus as the one who listens and obeys the Father perfectly — revealing true obedience as something rooted in love, freedom, and the pursuit of the good and true. This vision offers a path beyond oppressive systems into the joyful responsibility of becoming listeners and doers of the Word.

Next episode will continue into the more challenging and provocative passage regarding bondservants and masters, exploring the radical implications of Paul’s message for unjust systems and relationships.

Support the show

The Light in Every Thing is a podcast of The Seminary of The Christian Community in North America. Learn more about the Seminary and its offerings at our website. This podcast is supported by our growing Patreon community. To learn more, go to www.patreon.com/ccseminary.

Thanks to Elliott Chamberlin who composed our theme music, “Seeking Together,” and the legacy of our original show-notes and patreon producer, Camilla Lake.